On slavery and rape

23 06 2011

Watch this video:

This woman is only repeating what the scholars say, which is what Islam says.
The problem starts with religion. By the way, Christianity, including Jesus, also condones slavery. The bible condones the murder of entire tribes ”but keep the young girls who have not known a man unto yourselves”. Pretty close to what Islam says of course.
So close as to make it clear where they got it from.
As long as religions have these primitive misogynist views on women and slavery and rape in their holy books this type of stuff will come back at us.

Islam and Shariah allow for genocide and enslavement and rape of slaves. And the example of the prophet an his followers doing all these things solidifies this ”divine concept”. And so it will come back to us.
Ali had 18 slave girls when he died. He liked booty. And remember he traded them for new ones. He could afford it, so he could do it.

And this woman is not the only one, the followers of Anjem Choudary in England always come back with this: ”We will conquer you and make slaves of your women. ” I have heard Anjem say it himself on a video. It’s not one person. This stuff is fundamental in Shariah, the rules are defined, how to take slaves, what to do with them, etc. It’s not made up, it all in the religion.

Dogma stops you from thinking clearly. It stops you from applying real morality. it stops morality itself from developing and advancing to a higher level.
The problem is religion itself. Religion forces you to believe stuff which you know is not right. This slavery and rape issue is a very good example. Once you have to believe and follow what your religion says, while you know it says things which are morally wrong, you start eroding your own mind, and your own morals.
These bronze age religions come from a time when war and slavery and ownership and rape of women were ”normal”. These things are now considered evil. But the holy books still follow these backwards concepts.

So what happens is that you either have to go into Intellectual Acrobatics mode, the ”It was really different and slaves had lots of rights and were treated really well” or ”This is taken out of context” or ”You must see it in it’s own time” or ”This is misunderstood” etc. etc.

Or you keep it simple and follow scripture, like this woman, like the scholars in Saudi and Kuwait, and England and everywhere, and simply state: the book says it’s ok, the prophet and his companions did it so it’s super ok, so we should do it.

And make no mistake: Christianity has no problem with slavery and rape either, so when Christiantity gets back into power all what is needed is for a strong leader to quote all the proper bible verses, make them into laws and we are back where we started: in the dark ages.



8 responses

23 06 2011

You know, you’d think the perfect morality of god would include something about not raping people. But no, it’s encouraged in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

A two year old can come up with better morality than that.

24 06 2011

Who’s the Ali you are referring to? If it’s prophet Mohammed’s cousin and son-in-law, then you are mistaken. I appreciate your stance on intolerant, nonsense religion-inspired gibberish, but when it comes to facts, please do not misrepresent them! Imam Ali generally lived in a bleak financial state, and certainly did not own 18 slaves. Check, then double check your sources to make sure you’re not just writing anything for the sake of writing. Thanks!

24 06 2011

Yes I mean the son-in law of the prophet. He was a good warrior and had many slaves.
The prophet had slaves too, after all, he got 5% of the war booty and that included the people made into slaves which he used as gifts, or for trading or for himself.

Read the hadith. Bukhari describes how Ali was bringing mohammeds booty, he had just taken a bath because he had raped one of the slave girls before bringing them to Mohammed. Mohammed was alright with that.
Bukhari 59:637 “The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, ‘Don’t you see this (i.e. Ali)?’ When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, ‘O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.'”

26 06 2011

These are all lies propagated by the haters of the Prophet’s family. Bukhari is filled with non-authentic hadith and this one was downright comical, nasty too. Please, before spreading the nonsense, it makes better sense to get down to the source of your information and verifying its authenticity. Imam Ali is a revered man who would not rape nor harm nor mistreat any being, human, animal, animate and even inanimate objects have their place of respect.

26 06 2011

I agree with you about not mistreating abybody or anything. But in my opinion those are modern morals we developed because we are more advanced that the people from the past.
I am not ”spreading” anything; it’s in Bukhari I agree it’s nasty, but if you have a problem with it you shouldn’t discuss it with me you should have it removed from the book of Bukhari.
At the very least this hadeeth proves how people right after the time of the prophet and his companions thought about them and what they thought was proper behaviour. And they were better than current generations weren’t they?
Bukhari is reliable. He Muslim and ibn Ishak used scientific methods to collect how Mohamed lived. And they tried to show Mohammed in a positive light too. If you reject their information you must reject all the history and hadeeth.
Either you believe in their process or you don’t.
Either you accept all of it or none. If you believe none you have no basis for Sharia, praying etc.

And while you are at it you should have the passages in the Quran removed about how men are allowed to force sex on any slave woman they own.

27 06 2011

Aafke, when you read any piece of information and you do not get to its source to verify it, it could very easily lead you astray. And when you copy paste the first thing you read you are in essence spreading the misinformation. The prophet Mohammed and his family had many enemies, and they strove to hurt them in all ways possible. This aside, there are over 900,000 non-authentic hadith in books like Bukhari and Muslim, not only that, but this specific hadith you mention can actually be a modern fabrication. I’ll have to check different prints of Bukhari and let you know if it even exists!

Also, it’s contradictory for the Qur’an to allow men to force sex on slave women. I’ll check that out too and respond as soon as I’m able as I’m in the process of moving in these days. I know there are verses in the Qur’an that may come off as illogical or strange or even evil as the one mentioning slavery and sex, but you’ll have to understand that the Qur’an is unlike any modern day text. It has its own methods for studying it, and I do not think it’s intellectual acrobatics if one believes that verses are taken out of context, or if we believe they are not seen under the same light that once shed on them.

Religion often times falls victim to the case of the person using or abusing the tool. It’s all too easy to pick on something, and twist it to satisfy our own perversions. And unfortunately this is nothing new. People have been using religion to justify their evil deeds since time immemorial.

I think you have been allowing the wahhabi interpretation of the Islamic religion to influence you and I don’t blame you, it’s the one that provides the most controversy.

And to clarify, (we get such bad press!) as a practicing Muslim, I am completely opposed to archaic practices of slavery, barbaric acts of torture and murder and any and all evil deeds. But are there people out there who call themselves Muslim and slit people’s throats in the name of their so called religion? Yes, but we can’t both be Muslim. The Islam I know does not contain evil. It is a simple way of life of striving to be the best versions of ourselves, helping one another, not seeing race or color, and transcending beyond the mundane. It is essentially about love and everything that branches out of it. It’s living a life of honesty, dignity and humility. And no, I am not Sufi. It’s to live doing good for others and by others. It is about justice. And these are not modern morals.
Have you read ‘Peak of Eloquence/Nahjul Balagha’? It’s a collection of letters, sermons and sayings by Imam Ali, and if you read any of it, it might show you an inkling of that man’s character and perhaps a much needed and different and look at Islam. (You may encounter some objectionable material as well–but you’ll have to read it thoroughly to gain an understanding of the subjects presented and to deduct that a person of such wisdom can not possibly go against his own intellect).

Again, I just wanted to say I enjoy your writings, I admire your passions and I love your animals : ) I feel blessed for having the company of 2 cats myself, and I’m hoping to some day call a horse my friend : )

Keep your posts up!
All the best,

14 07 2011
21 07 2011

Brilliant! I read the guy’s blog! What determination.

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