Back to sordid reality

28 12 2008

holy-family

Christmas is over.

It is unacceptable for any government under any pretext to target civillians. Hamas is wrong by arbitrarily sending rockets into Israelian territory, and Israel is wrong with their ridiculously draconian ”countermeasures”.

But let’s make one thing clear, while the media keep going on about the ”rocket-attacks” and Palestinian ”rockets” I do feel the need to point out a small but important difference between Palestinian, and Israeli/American ”Rockets”.

While a Palestinian ”rocket” would indeed kill you if it landed precisely on your head, and has recently killed two palestinian girls by being faulty, and it càn make a hole in a roof, or in the pavement,

f_14_rocket_in_street

I do wonder about semantics when they are awarded exactely the same denomination as the American ”rockets” the Israelis used yesterday to ”retaliate”.
Because what an Israeli ”rocket” does, is this:

f-14_israeli-attack

So to recap, This:

f-14_palestinian-rocket1

Is a whole different world from this:

f-14_full_load

And while I am sincerely sorry for the 57 civilians who had to be treated for shock by the well-equipped and abundant Israeli-medical staff, with reportedly 200 ambulances standing by. I am even more sorry for the (count up till now) 275 people killed and the over 600 wounded who will not be able to get adequate medical care at the Gaza-hospitals who are severely understaffed. And, due to the continuing Israeli-blokkade have neither modern medical equipment, nor sufficient medicines.

Israel, having more capability for ”precision-targetting” deemed it nessecary to target not only supposed weapons-dumps, security compounds and the Hamas-headquarters, but also a mosque, the Hamas television station and Police-stations.
I am sorry for the graphic nature of the next photo, showing dead police-men. But I think this needs to be known. If people don’t realise the ugliness of conflict, the reality of death, then we won’t be stimulated to put an end to it.

And oh, how I pray this evil will stop!

f-14_israeli-attack-4

update: For those who do not actually open the post and read the comments, I don’t want anybody to miss Chiara’s comment:

If you would like to read more about the impact on the people of the embargo. occupation, and most recent assault, as well as efforts to provide help, support and education read about the “Gaza Community Mental Health Programme (GCMHP) A non-profit Palestinian non-governmental organization providing mental health support to communities in the Gaza Strip. http://www.gcmhp.net” Their work is admirable but the need for it is dismaying.

The founder Dr Eyad Sarraj, a Palestinian psychiatrist, has been arrested and “interrogated” by both sides and describes well the psychological brutalization of the occupation on both occupier and occupied.

A favorite site of mine  “Palestine Remembered:  The Home of Ethnically Cleansed & Occupied Palestinians” http://www.palestineremembered.com/ –an impressive and reliable combination of history, maps, photos, oral history, documentation, statistics, and advocacy showing the systematic destruction of Palestine.

While in my opinion these sites go off towards the other end of the scale, I’m a bit wary of all this zionist stuff, I think is still good to read the other side of the story, if only to keep a balance. Today I got a bit miffed again because the German news did interview an Israely paramedic, (4 people had been killed) and no Palestinians. They did show the devastation of the Gaza-strip however, and the weird difference from a point at the border; devestation to the right, and a neat Israeli village to the left.
Anybody with a bit of independent thinking can make up his own mind from these images.

I again plug my post on America and Israel, and the weird fact that a long list of key officials in the American government hold dual Israeli-American citizenship. Click here.

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40 responses

28 12 2008
Marahm

“If people don’t realise the ugliness of conflict, the reality of death, then we won’t be stimulated to put an end to it.”

I do think they realize the ugliness of conflict and death. Israel’s intention was to inflict it upon their victims. The inequality between the respective countries’ rocket attacks is well know to all, but even Hamas had the intention to inflict pain and death upon Israel.

Perhaps violence and death is actually the last resort, the giving up of hope, and the admission of defeat, used after all other measures have failed. Israel stands righteous over its claim as do the Palestinians. Does anyone think this conflict will be resolved by might? Does might make right? Evidently, both sides still think so. As long as they do, we can do nothing for either one of them, short of falling in line behind the battle lines.

And Allah knows best.

28 12 2008
Aafke

That sentence was meant for those people who live far away, and only hear the media reports. I think they are biased, hence the use of the word ”rockets” for bot the enlarged fireworks of Hamas, and the heavy deadly war-machinerey of Israel, and I also think most newscasts are ”sanitised” to keep ”us” from realised how horrible these actions really are!

I know they both want to cause death and suffering, I also know that not all Israelies and Palestinians wish this. I feel so sad and sick when I see stuff like this on the news. I immediately see al kinds of relatives and their pain over their lost ones, and more hatred being bred. That is what the bad people on both sides want.
I am, and have always been, sure that Israel never intends for this war to stop, because they reap substantial benefits from it: they play the beset victims for the world media while they consistently take overe more and more Palestinian land every year. And the Hamas members are stupid to cater to their wishes and give the Israelies reasons to strike back at their own people, their own families, women and children. Both factions are as responsible for their own people’s deaths as they are for those ”on the other side”

Allah knows best? I don’t think this is Allah’s will, don’t forget there is another party in the equasion.

28 12 2008
Achelois

I have a friend who lives in Gaza. Palestinian. He went to live there in 1998, got married and has 3 kids. Every day is a nightmare for him and his family. Every night is misery. It was his choice to assert his right over his land.

All this misery for land when even the Prophet left his land to migrate to more welcoming Medina. If it means life or death, shouldn’t we save our life? This war will never end. It was the beginning of terrorism. The first plane to be hijacked was by Yasser Arafat. This will go on and on and on. More and more people will die – Palestinians and Israelis. And we, we the people who live far way from where we can’t hear the “rockets” blowing up brains, we will just shake heads and pray. It doesn’t solve anything. We have been shaking heads forever and praying forever. Nothing works.

28 12 2008
Aafke

So sad, so hopeless, and so frustrating, there is nothing we can do.

29 12 2008
Chiara

If you would like to read more about the impact on the people of the embargo. occupation, and most recent assault, as well as efforts to provide help, support and education read about the “Gaza Community Mental Health Programme (GCMHP) A non-profit Palestinian non-governmental organization providing mental health support to communities in the Gaza Strip. http://www.gcmhp.net” Their work is admirable but the need for it is dismaying.

The founder Dr Eyad Sarraj, a Palestinian psychiatrist, has been arrested and “interrogated” by both sides and describes well the psychological brutalization of the occupation on both occupier and occupied.

Excellent topic and photo illustrations.

29 12 2008
Aafke

Chiara, welcome to my blog, thank you for this excellent comment, I have editted the post and added your comment to the actual text.

29 12 2008
Chiara

Thank you, I am flattered and honoured!

29 12 2008
Chiara

PS By the way the GCMHP has been in the news lately with some interesting comments by Dr. Sarraj, and they have a foundation for those who would like to contribute to their efforts which combine clinical work, research, and social advocacy.

29 12 2008
susanne430

Thank you, Aafke, for this thought-provoking post. I hope more people become aware of these truths. The media here is very one-sided.

29 12 2008
Marahm

When I say, “Allah knows best,” I do not mean that this is His will. I mean that only He knowns the dynamics behind the conflict, and only He knows how it will all end.

Achelois said, “All this misery for land when even the Prophet left his land to migrate to more welcoming Medina. If it means life or death, shouldn’t we save our life?”

With all due respect to those who are directly involved, I wonder if the Palestinians shouldn’t simply walk away, give the land to Israel, and accept defeat in exchange for life? Perhaps I show my naivete here, but how else can this thing end, apart from mutual annihilation?

29 12 2008
Aafke

Marahm, I know, I was just being a bit serious.
I think Achelois uttered one point of thought, I am sure she has more. We all know it isn’t that easy. I remembered a documentary about a Palestinian graveyard where they made it almost impossible for the Palestinians to visit and they didn’t allow family to be buried there; they stopped his father’s funeral procession at the wall, and they had to go back. Some people are used to travelling, but if you have deep roots in the land it;s a whole different issue.

and where to go? How to make a living? in another country where you are at best a guest, and at worst an unwanted interloper?
I’m just so sorry for all those people who want a normal quit life and some prosperity and are not allowed these things because a few warmongers have different objectives.

29 12 2008
Lat

“I am, and have always been, sure that Israel never intends for this war to stop, because they reap substantial benefits from it: they play the beset victims for the world media..”

Iagree with you totally.As long as people from both sides derive benefits from this the war will never end.It takes more than might to win this war.It’s like they never heard of the words forgiveness, mercy and love.

29 12 2008
Aafke

Lat, yes, and even if they always claim ;;the Israelis” and the ”palestinians” it is by no means the whole groups who want all this destructin and suffering, it’s a group of evil warmongers amongst them!
Thos on either side who want peace are treted badly by either side. Why don’t they get it that this is real evil at work? Not some dude wit horns and a tail, but some old bozo’s who send young people to blow themselves up, or fire mortars at civilian targets, who promote the death and suffering of innocent civilians!

29 12 2008
Saudi in US

This is really sad, both leadership are acting irresponsible.

In one hand Hamas has failed their people by constantly putting them in harms way against a much more powerful military force and they never yield no matter how many people get killed or what amount of destruction results from their irrational behavior. It is a leadership group that acts with the same arrogance and stupidity of the Monty Python Black Knight

I would not be surprised if these loonies claim victory just like Hisbullah did a couple of years ago after Israel destroyed the infrastructure of the country and killed over a thousand in their raids.

(I hope dark humor is not an offense that gets me in the loony bin page)

The Kadima party in Israel is responding with unnecessary force to keep their control of the prime president position with the opposition beating the drums of war. They feel compelled to respond with such savagery to look tough enough to gain the votes.

This madness will never stop as long as both Israelis and Palestinians continue to put their trust on such leaders.

29 12 2008
Chiara

I am convinced that this was part of a long term plan by Israel to force the Palestinians out, and was the reason behind Sharon’s move to clear the Gaza of Israeli settlers. Recent history scholarship (by Israeli’s) has proven with documents of the time (held in secret until recently), that forcing Palestinians out was the original intent of the Israeli leadership, and a motive behind the 1948 war and the tactics of that war.

Inspite of the practicalities of staying or leaving, the right of return (granted by UN resolutions Israel ignores and is allowed to ignore) is at stake if all Palestinians “voluntarily” leave. Another motive for the ongoing harassment, and recent escalation.

I do believe Hamas, the elected government, could have governed Palestine effectively and peaceably if Israel and the international community (US and EU primarily, Canada,–oh and where were the Arab countries) would have accepted their request for support and cooperation instead of colluding to starve (literally and figuratively) Palestine into submission, ie leaving (extremely wry face here). Again, IMO part of a larger plan by Israel to take all the land West of the Jordan River. Otherwise why prohibit humanitarian aid (here the Arab countries and others have made valiant efforts?

Hanan Ashrawi is IMO a brilliant spokeswoman for Palestinians. She attempted to explain much of the above in an interview with CNN this morning, but as usual was cut off, constrained by the questions, and overtalked by the interviewer ( Canadian John Roberts sigh)–video or transcript not yet available. Video’d interviews with her are available at Google video.

Sorry to be long winded, does that get you to the loony bin 🙂

Thank you for the timely post, and openess to commentary.

29 12 2008
Aafke

I think we are all of the same understanding.
This is a post about such a significant subject that long comments are inevitable if one wants to respond properly.
Please don’t apologise. I am happy you are responding so seriously.

In regard to the loony bin: there’s no chance either of you will end up there. The loonybin is specifically designed to hold witch hunters, cybermen, and scary umm’s.

29 12 2008
Rhysz

What about Daleks?

29 12 2008
coolred38

I wish ALL Americans could see the REAL war going on over there..rather than the sanitized version pre approved by the American govt…its like night and day. Having lived in the middle east over 20 years…and seen the news over here over the years…its like watching footage and hearing comments about two completely different wars. Americans need to stop watching Fox News and CNN and start searching the net and asking questions…Palestine and its people are headed for extinction and Americans care more for endangered animals then endangered human lives…apparently.

29 12 2008
Aafke

Rhysz, they àre the daleks!

Coolred38, I agree, that’s why I posted the very horrible bloody image. I don’t really want this sort of thing on my blog, but I feel it’s nesseccary to tell the truth. However horrible it is.

29 12 2008
Chiara

Coolred
I agree. In the age of the internet there is no excuse for not reading/viewing international news sites for alternatives to the dominant view, and for not learning about the Palestinian perspective. A favorite site of mine “Palestine Remembered: The Home of Ethnically Cleansed & Occupied Palestinians” http://www.palestineremembered.com/ –an impressive and reliable combination of history, maps, photos, oral history, documentation, statistics, and advocacy showing the systematic destruction of Palestine.

29 12 2008
Aafke

Chiara, I agree with you, I have added this link too.

29 12 2008
Rhysz

I’m loathed to get into the Israel/Palastine thing because I’d need to type non-stop for 3 months, 2 weeks and 6.1 days……

I will say this:
I simply do not understand Israel is so set on keeping the conflict going. The window for a reasonable settlement is closing people. Islamic fundamentalism is taking root in the Palastinian people, where ten years ago we were dealing with a somewhat secular movement of Palastinians today we are dealing with people like Hamas and Fattah. Dislike the PLO al you want, it was rife with nepotism and corruption, at least they were an organisation we could have built a stable borderstate for Israel, and by extension the entire region with. One of the best options for Israel is a stable Palastine tied to Israel economically, socially and logistically. I think Milton Friedman said it best: “To Israel he entire peace process is one of one step forward and two steps back.”

Regards,
Rhysz

30 12 2008
Chiara

I have regretfully come to the conclusion that Israel does not seek peace, but rather the elimination of the Palestinian people from the territory. I base that conclusion information gained by reading reports on current Israeli scholarship (eg. in Haar’etz as well as academic sites), Israeli human rights associations, and Palestinian scholars, like Hanan Ashrawi, and Rashid Khalidi (the one Obama used to know and now pretends not to), and sites like Palestine Remembered. The series of maps of the territory (all of it) from 1948 to now is particularly telling.

The attitude, especially in North America, is that Israel is always the victim and must at all times be supported in preparation for defense against an attack. This state of perpetual war alert was emphasized to me by the philanthropic efforts of a prominent Canadian Jewish business couple who own , among other things, a chain of bookstores in Canada. Their Heseg – Foundation for Lone Soldiers http://www.heseg.com (Hebrew only) or http://www.caiaweb.org/files/website1_HESEG_factsheet_v2.3.pdf
initially sounded to me like a rather benign, humanitarian effort to give support to Israeli soldiers who were traumatized and without social supports. However, it is not that, but rather a recruiting tool for the IDF, as it offers full funding (living expenses as well as tuition and supplies) for 4 years of university in Israel to non-Israeli Jews who volunteer to serve in the IDF (in addition to other forms of support for those same Jews from the diaspora who sign up for the IDF); and, it is a tool for increasing the population of Israel as these lone soldiers are expected to establish permanent residency. There are 5-6000 such lone soldiers and the foundation pays out 3 million $Cdn annually.

I can only hope that I and others are wrong, or that Israel fails in its efforts

30 12 2008
always in the kitchen

I think they planned this when the U.S legislature is out on break,and we’re all waiting for presidential regime change.Nobodys in Washington to complain to.
My hearts on the ground when I realize it’s U.S. tax dollars that fund this genocide.

30 12 2008
Rhysz

WHOAAAAHHHHHHH!
I’ll agree that the attacks were somewhat serendipitous with the US transfer of power. Certainly, with Bush FINALLY (Thank random chance!) being a lame duck president.
This is hardly (for now) hardly a genocide, massacre or mass-murder would be more open to discussion though. Taxes also have nothing to do with it, I fear most Americans are quite apathetic to the palestinians plight.

Regards,
Rhysz

P.S
The only person the last Hamas rocket attack hit was a Palastinian builder……

30 12 2008
always in the kitchen

Well it fits the definition of genocide,albeit a slow and calculated one.In my mind it’s not much different than what the nazis did.It’s just surreal how the Israelies are now the oppressors to the palestinians.

30 12 2008
Chiara

I would agree with the calculated timing, between presidencies, and over the holidays when Congress is out, and people are generally not so attentive to the news. Also, if not a genocide then an ethnocide, eg. all Palestinians out, dead or assimilated (the least preferred option for Israel). The actions against Gaza are designed to and are effective in disrupting family, social and work life to an extent that threatens the social fabric and culture of Palestinian life there; much as the “swiss cheese” geography or what some call apartheid and bantustanization of the West Bank does in less dramatic fashion. I once had a social discussion with a Jewish colleague about her son who is an engineer married to an Israeli. We were discussing his resistance to learning Spanish when she said, “Oh now he is too busy perfecting his Hebrew to work as an engineer, and learning Arabic to speak to the workers”–apartheid in a nutshell.

30 12 2008
Chiara

PS That the Israelis should be oppressors and aggressors despite their own historical experiences is unfortunately all too understandable and common psychologically–identification with the aggressor, rationalization, and paranoia(despite there being some real threats).

30 12 2008
Chiara

PPS From CBC News:
On Saturday, a community leader who represents about 12,000 Palestinian-Canadians in the Mississauga, Ont., area called the military strikes “genocide … a Hanukkah gift from the Israeli government.”
“We have many of our community members, their background is from Gaza, and we cannot talk to them because they’re still waiting to hear if they lost family members or not,” said Farid Ayad, president of Palestine House.
Ayad said the Canadian government should push Israel to stop the siege and then send food and fuel to civilians.

30 12 2008
Aafke

I know I am repeating myself, but I do think this list should be known by everybody: It isn’t just the head of state, there’s a whole system manned by officials who won’t be displaced at the same time a new president steps in.
I don’t like for key-officials to hold dual citizenship, it makes me wonder about where somebodies loyalties lay. I don’t want to suggest everybody on this list places Israel above America, but it does leave the assumption open. If you want to be a key government official you should not hold a dual citizenship. I am amazed it is allowed. And so many too! Either you give up your citizenship to the other country, or you look for another job!
And a large portion of Key US officials who hold Israeli citizenship in addition to American citizenship are:

* Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
* Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
* Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
* Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
* Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
* National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
* Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
* White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
* Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
* Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
* U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
* Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
* UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
* Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
* Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
* Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
* Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
* Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
* Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
* White House Political Director – Ken Melman
* National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
* Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
* Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence Franklin
* National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
* President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
* Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
* Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
* White House Speechwriter – David Frum
* White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
* Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
* Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
* Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
* Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis

Sopan Greene, and source

30 12 2008
Chiara

wow! Have these all been verified? Is it known how they obtained Israeli citizenship, eg. by birth, by immigration, by gift of the Israeli government after they were in office?
Especially shocking since the US has only liberalized their laws about dual citizenship in recent years (1990’s).

No need to share here I’m sure that Obama’s White House Assistant appointee Rahm Emmanuel left an excellent position to volunteer with the IDF during Gulf War I (George Bush senior’s war).

30 12 2008
susanne430

I hope you don’t mind that I put the link to this post in the comments of my blog. I wanted people to get some perspective of the rockets vs. the bombs. Thanks.

30 12 2008
Aafke

chiara, it’s a well-known list that has been roaming around the internet for a while, it was longer, I got it from Jonolan’s blog. She asserts it has been well-vetted. on the original post I did on this list you can click the sources:
https://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/why-america-supports-israel/

Susanne430, no I don’t mind; I think this is something which people should be aware of.

31 12 2008
Aafke

I agree with the earlier comments about some Israelis working out an agenda here. And yes, I do feel, and have so for a long time, that some Israelis are using some of the same techniques as the early Nazi’s.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the bombard the Gaza-strip as their version of and ”Entlösung” to the ”Palestinian Problem”.
Read Olmert’s remarks here,
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051234.html
he actually tells us: “The Gaza offensive has begun and will not end…. until our goals our reached, we are continuing according to the plan,”

And Israelies who want normal relationships with the Palestinians, and who want peace and stability and prosperity for all, are being given a very hard time too in Israel.
The faction in control of Israel does not speak for all Israelis, but rules like a dictatorship, with brute force and opression.

31 12 2008
Chiara

Thanks Aafke. I am well aware of some of the dynamics of why the US has such a pro-Israeli stance but this one was new to me.

Karen Kwiatkowski, a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Air Force (now retired) has written of her time at the Pentagon from 2000-3:

At the time, I didn’t realize that the expertise on Middle East policy was not only being removed, but was also being exchanged for that from various agenda-bearing think tanks, including the Middle East Media Research Institute, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs. […] I learned that there was indeed a preferred ideology for NESA [ Near East South Asia bureau]. My first day in the office, a GS-15 career civil servant rather unhappily advised me that if I wanted to be successful here, I’d better remember not to say anything positive about the Palestinians. This belied official U.S. policy of serving as an honest broker for resolution of Israeli and Palestinian security concerns.

A coworker and I were suddenly directed to go down to the Mall entrance to pick up some Israeli generals. Post-9/11 rules required one escort for every three visitors, and there were six or seven of them waiting. […] the leader of the pack surged ahead, his colleagues in close formation, leaving us to double-time behind the group […] Once in Feith’s waiting room, the leader continued at speed to Feith’s closed door. An alert secretary saw this coming and had leapt from her desk to block the door. […] The leader craned his neck to look around the secretary’s head as he demanded, “Who is in there with him?” […] I noticed the security sign-in roster. […] I asked the secretary, “Do you want these guys [the Israeli generals] to sign in [as North African ambassadors were required to do]?” She raised her hands, both palms toward me, and waved frantically as she shook her head. “No, no, no, it is not necessary, not at all.” Her body language told me I had committed a faux pas for even asking the question.

From: http://www.truthout.org/article/karen-kwiatkowski-the-new-pentagon-papers; and, http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:sIkxoky7YqMJ:www.amconmag.com/2004_01_19/article1.html+karen+kwiatkowski+israel+ambassador&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ca

31 12 2008
Rhysz

Okay, here we go:
Although, I only have a minor stake in the conflict I still feel that I have to qualify my position on a couple of the issues on the conflict.
#1
I think a Arabian Sciences teacher I met once explained it best. She went to Israel, in the end she decided to stay with a Palestinian family. She couldn’t stop exalting the friendliness and openness of the Palestinians she met there. I think she put it best when she said: ”What many people forget is that we are dealing with a traumatized people who were so afraid of their own security that in turn they traumatized another people.” Today this means that we have two very scared populations sharing a very small part of our planet. I think the growth of the state of Israel resulted in a rapid ‘Balkanization’ of this little piece of the world.
#2
I read this on Suzanne340’s blog. Screaming ‘Zionists’ isn’t going to solve anything, Israeli population is increasingly open to peace talks, especially younger generations. Palastine has never been an ‘Islamic cause’ until recently. Palestinians identify themselves as Palestinians and not as Arabs, moreover, the Palestinian mindset has historically been one of secular-Islam. This exactly why the religious nuts in KSA and Iran have let them rot for the last 50 years. It has only become ‘en vogue’ since 9/11 and Bush’s ill-conceived ‘War on Terror’(whatever that means). It is exactly this that worries me, into the root of my being even. A solution is possible but it’s like a piece of fast-melting ice in our hands, either we move our ass or it’ll slip away. Like just another couple of drops of water in the desert.
#3
The Palestinian occupation, in my opinion, cannot be called a ‘genocide’. If it were than the Israelis are very bad at it. I haven’t had a chance to look at the exact numbers but the Germans managed to exterminate millions of Jews in a relatively short span of time (again I need to look up numbers). Whatever on can claim there is no ‘extermination industry’ in Israel. Even the poorly thought-out rocket attacks on the occupied territories can not and must not be construed as ‘genocide’. The millions of dollars of ordinance the Israelis launched is a piss-poor cost ineffective system for such an undertaking. Hell, the Americans committed their own campaign against the native-Americans, which some do consider an attempt at genocide (though I’m sure they called it population control) in the 19th century. There’s a still huge argument in the West if the Armenian ‘relocation’ can even be qualified as a genocide (mind you the Armenians were a christian people force-marched by a muslem nation, sorry, no ‘Western bias’ cards today). Even Darfur and Rwanda are open to discussion. Never mind the atrocities committed by our communist friends; Stalin, Mao and Pot. Actually, Pol Pot does get my vote; although he didn’t kill a specific ethnic group he killed everyone that was educated, he killed everyone that could disagree on an intellectual level. “Glasses and watches” sends a sub-zero chill up my spine until this very day. (I’ll refer you to the witch-hunter section on what these people are)
#4
Please, make no mistake, I support and emphasize with my fellow human beings who happen to exist in Palestine. I do not share their race (although that is open to debate), ethnicity, customs, religions and, luckily, their plight but I do share their pain and the injustice that has been done unto them. But if we are to move their cause forward and, indeed the future of this entire insignificant world, bless our children with a better world we cannot descend into superfluous hyperbole. Moreover we can’t just settle for an incredibly retarded ‘blame-game’ instead we should aspire to something better; discussion, tolerance and peace.
In light of all the hatred, fear and bile that surrounds us I can say only one thing:
‘One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.’

Regards,
Rhysz

31 12 2008
Rhysz

P.S.
Clouddragon can you please source that list?

31 12 2008
susanne430

Rhysz, sorry if you didn’t like the term “Zionists.” I really don’t know what to call them and that is the term my Syrian friend uses. I only mean to differentiate between the group that started it all (Herzl & Co.) and the Jews who do not want it to continue. Is there a more politically-correct term? And in America, the evangelical Christians who support Israel are often labeled Christian Zionists so … thus my use of that word. Or maybe Samer used it. I think we both do. Anyway…I didn’t realize it was offensive, but thanks for pointing that out. 🙂

I enjoy your comments.

31 12 2008
Chiara

Thank you Rhysz and Suzanne for your stimulating comments! Another of my two cents (since they are Canadian it takes more of them :-)):

Zionist like many other terms can be used accurately or hyperbolically with the intention of offense. It was a revelation to me to learn that Zionists other than Herzl & co. did genuinely respect that Palestine was already inhabited and did genuinely envisage peaceful coexistence (the philosopher Martin Buber and Einstein among them). Unfortunately they lost out politically to Herzl’s vision which was more in keeping with the 19th century European attitude of taking foreign lands for one’s own purpose. In that sense it was inherently racist and religionist (white European caucasions, Ashkenazi Jews, vs dark-skinned Arab caucasians, Palestinian Muslims–strictly speaking there are three major races, Caucasian, Negroid, and Asiatic). Zionism more broadly was the movement beginning in the 19th century to find a place elsewhere in the world (Argentina and Southern Africa were among the other candidates) for persecuted European, especially Eastern European and Russian, Jews.

Historical documents, recently revealed because of the lapse of time limits, make it very clear that ben-Gurion & co. wanted to remove Palestinians from the land, whether by forcing them out with restrictions, frightening them out, or killing them as necessary; and, they were very clear on the propaganda and tactics to be used–“self-defense”, disinformation, justification because of the Holocaust, guilt of other nations because of the Holocaust, massive immigration, destruction or confiscation of Arab properties, among them. This is why the younger generation of Israeli historians is able to write fuller more informed accounts of their own country’s history, including the Jewish terrorist groups (their words) which faught to force out the British. Whether the intent has been a genocide or an ethnocide or permanent displacement of a people may be debatable, but the actions by successive Israeli governments and the results achieved so far would argue for the same “dislocation or assimilation” policy as the 19th century one in North America and elsewhere, except that in those cases and currently the assimilation is never fully desired nor achieved.

While it is one thing to force Palestinians to live in camps (“reserves”?), walled-in cities accessible only through check points and by smaller roads, the superhighways being reserved for Israeli’s (“ghettos”?) , or within ever diminishing territories (Gaza and the West Bank and within the West Bank–“bantustans”?) it is quite another to withhold food, water, electricity, fuel, medical supplies, foreign aid, money, expertise, work, and freedom of movement even through checkpoints. Doing so to the point of “humanitarian crisis” then allowing just enough in to prevent the crisis, only to start the cycle over again is cruel and unusual punishment not to mention an physical and psychological exercise in control, much like the use of excessive force (as judged by the UN) whenever there is an excuse to do so. When not in open conflict constant harassment and demoralization are universal tactics.

While not wishing to play the blame game, and in full sympathy with the Jewish/Israeli need for peace and safety, I do think the whole world (including many Israelis and Israeli organizations) is coming to realize the assymetry of the fight between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and to realize that Israel has moved beyond its post-WWII phase into something else. Now if more nations would take some responsibility and work toward genuine peace that would be great!

Hmmm–maybe that was getting closer to 4 cents worth 🙂

11 01 2009
Pages tagged "sordid"

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