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	<title>Comments on: On slavery and rape</title>
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		<title>By: Aafke-Art</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7628</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke-Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brilliant! I read the guy&#039;s blog! What determination.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant! I read the guy&#8217;s blog! What determination.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good news Aafke!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/07/13/137824732/austrian-man-wins-right-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-license-photo?ps=cprs]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good news Aafke!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/07/13/137824732/austrian-man-wins-right-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-license-photo?ps=cprs" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/07/13/137824732/austrian-man-wins-right-to-wear-pasta-strainer-in-license-photo?ps=cprs</a></p>
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		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7593</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 04:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aafke, when you read any piece of information and you do not get to its source to verify it, it could very easily lead you astray. And when you copy paste the first thing you read you are in essence spreading the misinformation. The prophet Mohammed and his family had many enemies, and they strove to hurt them in all ways possible. This aside, there are over 900,000 non-authentic hadith in books like Bukhari and Muslim, not only that, but this specific hadith you mention can actually be a modern fabrication. I&#039;ll have to check different prints of Bukhari and let you know if it even exists! 

Also, it&#039;s contradictory for the Qur&#039;an to allow men to force sex on slave women. I&#039;ll check that out too and respond as soon as I&#039;m able as I&#039;m in the process of moving in these days. I know there are verses in the Qur&#039;an that may come off as illogical or strange or even evil as the one mentioning slavery and sex, but you&#039;ll have to understand that the Qur&#039;an is unlike any modern day text. It has its own methods for studying it, and I do not think it&#039;s intellectual acrobatics if one believes that verses are taken out of context, or  if we believe they are not seen under the same light that once shed on them. 

Religion often times falls victim to the case of the person using or abusing the tool. It&#039;s all too easy to pick on something, and twist it to satisfy our own perversions. And unfortunately this is nothing new. People have been using religion to justify their evil deeds since time immemorial. 
 
I think you have been allowing the wahhabi interpretation of the Islamic religion to influence you and I don&#039;t blame you, it&#039;s the one that provides the most controversy. 

And to clarify, (we get such bad press!) as a practicing Muslim, I am completely opposed to archaic practices of slavery, barbaric acts of torture and murder and any and all evil deeds. But are there people out there who call themselves Muslim and slit people&#039;s throats in the name of their so called religion? Yes, but we can&#039;t both be Muslim. The Islam I know does not contain evil. It is a simple way of life of striving to be the best versions of ourselves, helping one another, not seeing race or color, and transcending beyond the mundane. It is essentially about love and everything that branches out of it. It&#039;s living a life of honesty, dignity and humility. And no, I am not Sufi. It&#039;s to live doing good for others and by others. It is about justice. And these are not modern morals. 
Have you read &#039;Peak of Eloquence/Nahjul Balagha&#039;? It&#039;s a collection of letters, sermons and sayings by Imam Ali, and if you read any of it, it might show you an inkling of that man&#039;s character and perhaps a much needed and different and look at Islam. (You may encounter some objectionable material as well--but you&#039;ll have to read it thoroughly to gain an understanding of the subjects presented and to deduct that a person of such wisdom can not possibly go against his own intellect).   

Again, I just wanted to say I enjoy your writings, I admire your passions and I love your animals : ) I feel blessed for having the company of 2 cats myself, and I&#039;m hoping to some day call a horse my friend : ) 

Keep your posts up!
All the best,
Zoe]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aafke, when you read any piece of information and you do not get to its source to verify it, it could very easily lead you astray. And when you copy paste the first thing you read you are in essence spreading the misinformation. The prophet Mohammed and his family had many enemies, and they strove to hurt them in all ways possible. This aside, there are over 900,000 non-authentic hadith in books like Bukhari and Muslim, not only that, but this specific hadith you mention can actually be a modern fabrication. I&#8217;ll have to check different prints of Bukhari and let you know if it even exists! </p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s contradictory for the Qur&#8217;an to allow men to force sex on slave women. I&#8217;ll check that out too and respond as soon as I&#8217;m able as I&#8217;m in the process of moving in these days. I know there are verses in the Qur&#8217;an that may come off as illogical or strange or even evil as the one mentioning slavery and sex, but you&#8217;ll have to understand that the Qur&#8217;an is unlike any modern day text. It has its own methods for studying it, and I do not think it&#8217;s intellectual acrobatics if one believes that verses are taken out of context, or  if we believe they are not seen under the same light that once shed on them. </p>
<p>Religion often times falls victim to the case of the person using or abusing the tool. It&#8217;s all too easy to pick on something, and twist it to satisfy our own perversions. And unfortunately this is nothing new. People have been using religion to justify their evil deeds since time immemorial. </p>
<p>I think you have been allowing the wahhabi interpretation of the Islamic religion to influence you and I don&#8217;t blame you, it&#8217;s the one that provides the most controversy. </p>
<p>And to clarify, (we get such bad press!) as a practicing Muslim, I am completely opposed to archaic practices of slavery, barbaric acts of torture and murder and any and all evil deeds. But are there people out there who call themselves Muslim and slit people&#8217;s throats in the name of their so called religion? Yes, but we can&#8217;t both be Muslim. The Islam I know does not contain evil. It is a simple way of life of striving to be the best versions of ourselves, helping one another, not seeing race or color, and transcending beyond the mundane. It is essentially about love and everything that branches out of it. It&#8217;s living a life of honesty, dignity and humility. And no, I am not Sufi. It&#8217;s to live doing good for others and by others. It is about justice. And these are not modern morals.<br />
Have you read &#8216;Peak of Eloquence/Nahjul Balagha&#8217;? It&#8217;s a collection of letters, sermons and sayings by Imam Ali, and if you read any of it, it might show you an inkling of that man&#8217;s character and perhaps a much needed and different and look at Islam. (You may encounter some objectionable material as well&#8211;but you&#8217;ll have to read it thoroughly to gain an understanding of the subjects presented and to deduct that a person of such wisdom can not possibly go against his own intellect).   </p>
<p>Again, I just wanted to say I enjoy your writings, I admire your passions and I love your animals : ) I feel blessed for having the company of 2 cats myself, and I&#8217;m hoping to some day call a horse my friend : ) </p>
<p>Keep your posts up!<br />
All the best,<br />
Zoe</p>
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		<title>By: Aafke-Art</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7592</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke-Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you about not mistreating abybody or anything. But in my opinion those are modern morals we developed because we are more advanced that the people from the past.
I am not &#039;&#039;spreading&#039;&#039; anything; it&#039;s in &lt;em&gt;Bukhari&lt;/em&gt; I agree it&#039;s nasty, but if you have a problem with it you shouldn&#039;t discuss it with me you should have it removed from the book of Bukhari.
At the very least this hadeeth proves how people right after the time of the prophet and his companions thought about them and what they thought was proper behaviour. And they were better than current generations weren&#039;t they?
Bukhari is reliable. He Muslim and ibn Ishak used scientific methods to collect how Mohamed lived. And they tried to show Mohammed in a positive light too. If you reject their information you must reject all the history and hadeeth. 
Either you believe in their process or you don&#039;t.
Either you accept all of it or none. If you believe none you have no basis for Sharia, praying etc.

And while you are at it you should have the passages in the Quran removed about how men are allowed to force sex on any slave woman they own.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you about not mistreating abybody or anything. But in my opinion those are modern morals we developed because we are more advanced that the people from the past.<br />
I am not &#8221;spreading&#8221; anything; it&#8217;s in <em>Bukhari</em> I agree it&#8217;s nasty, but if you have a problem with it you shouldn&#8217;t discuss it with me you should have it removed from the book of Bukhari.<br />
At the very least this hadeeth proves how people right after the time of the prophet and his companions thought about them and what they thought was proper behaviour. And they were better than current generations weren&#8217;t they?<br />
Bukhari is reliable. He Muslim and ibn Ishak used scientific methods to collect how Mohamed lived. And they tried to show Mohammed in a positive light too. If you reject their information you must reject all the history and hadeeth.<br />
Either you believe in their process or you don&#8217;t.<br />
Either you accept all of it or none. If you believe none you have no basis for Sharia, praying etc.</p>
<p>And while you are at it you should have the passages in the Quran removed about how men are allowed to force sex on any slave woman they own.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 23:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These are all lies propagated by the haters of the Prophet&#039;s family. Bukhari is filled with non-authentic hadith and this one was downright comical, nasty too. Please, before spreading the nonsense, it makes better sense to get down to the source of your information and verifying its authenticity. Imam Ali is a revered man who would not rape nor harm nor mistreat any being, human, animal, animate and even inanimate objects have their place of respect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are all lies propagated by the haters of the Prophet&#8217;s family. Bukhari is filled with non-authentic hadith and this one was downright comical, nasty too. Please, before spreading the nonsense, it makes better sense to get down to the source of your information and verifying its authenticity. Imam Ali is a revered man who would not rape nor harm nor mistreat any being, human, animal, animate and even inanimate objects have their place of respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Aafke-Art</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke-Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes I mean the son-in law of the prophet. He was a good warrior and had many slaves.
The prophet had slaves too, after all, he got 5% of the war booty and that included the people made into slaves which he used as gifts, or for trading or for himself.

Read the hadith. Bukhari describes how Ali was bringing mohammeds booty, he had just taken a bath because he had raped one of the slave girls before bringing them to Mohammed. Mohammed was alright with that.
Bukhari 59:637  &lt;em&gt;&quot;The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, &#039;Don&#039;t you see this (i.e. Ali)?&#039; When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, &#039;O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?&#039; I said, &#039;Yes.&#039; He said, &#039;Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.&#039;&quot;&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I mean the son-in law of the prophet. He was a good warrior and had many slaves.<br />
The prophet had slaves too, after all, he got 5% of the war booty and that included the people made into slaves which he used as gifts, or for trading or for himself.</p>
<p>Read the hadith. Bukhari describes how Ali was bringing mohammeds booty, he had just taken a bath because he had raped one of the slave girls before bringing them to Mohammed. Mohammed was alright with that.<br />
Bukhari 59:637  <em>&#8220;The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, &#8216;Don&#8217;t you see this (i.e. Ali)?&#8217; When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, &#8216;O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?&#8217; I said, &#8216;Yes.&#8217; He said, &#8216;Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.&#8217;&#8221;</em></p>
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		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7587</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 13:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who&#039;s the Ali you are referring to? If it&#039;s prophet Mohammed&#039;s cousin and son-in-law, then you are mistaken. I appreciate your stance on intolerant, nonsense religion-inspired gibberish, but when it comes to facts, please do not misrepresent them! Imam Ali generally lived in a bleak financial state, and certainly did not own 18 slaves. Check, then double check your sources to make sure you&#039;re not just writing anything for the sake of writing. Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s the Ali you are referring to? If it&#8217;s prophet Mohammed&#8217;s cousin and son-in-law, then you are mistaken. I appreciate your stance on intolerant, nonsense religion-inspired gibberish, but when it comes to facts, please do not misrepresent them! Imam Ali generally lived in a bleak financial state, and certainly did not own 18 slaves. Check, then double check your sources to make sure you&#8217;re not just writing anything for the sake of writing. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: personalfailure</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/on-slavery-and-rape/#comment-7585</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[personalfailure]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=5325#comment-7585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know, you&#039;d think the perfect morality of god would include something about not raping people. But no, it&#039;s encouraged in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

A two year old can come up with better morality than that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, you&#8217;d think the perfect morality of god would include something about not raping people. But no, it&#8217;s encouraged in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.</p>
<p>A two year old can come up with better morality than that.</p>
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