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	<title>Comments on: Religion, blasphemy and evolution 1</title>
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		<title>By: Aafke</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sabiwabi, we are certainly not the nicest branch on the primate tree. :mrgreen:]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sabiwabi, we are certainly not the nicest branch on the primate tree. <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif' alt=':mrgreen:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: sabiwabi</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sabiwabi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Coolred, the older I get and the more I see from humanity, the more I am convinced we really are descended from chimps (violent and aggressive) and bonobos (who solve all their problems and frustrations by having sex with whatever moves).

Looking at state of the world, often it&#039;s not too hard to understand where the evo&#039;s are coming from.

;)

From reading some of your &quot;behind the counter&quot; observations, I am sure you&#039;ll agree with me.  LOL.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coolred, the older I get and the more I see from humanity, the more I am convinced we really are descended from chimps (violent and aggressive) and bonobos (who solve all their problems and frustrations by having sex with whatever moves).</p>
<p>Looking at state of the world, often it&#8217;s not too hard to understand where the evo&#8217;s are coming from.<br />
 <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>From reading some of your &#8220;behind the counter&#8221; observations, I am sure you&#8217;ll agree with me.  LOL.</p>
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		<title>By: coolred38</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6337</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[coolred38]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MoQ...the monkey comment was in jest...as many do believe we sprang from monkey&#039;s...or at least share a common heritage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MoQ&#8230;the monkey comment was in jest&#8230;as many do believe we sprang from monkey&#8217;s&#8230;or at least share a common heritage.</p>
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		<title>By: sabiwabi</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6332</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sabiwabi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*cough, cough...spit, spit*

;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*cough, cough&#8230;spit, spit*<br />
 <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MoQ</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6331</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoQ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@sabiwabi,

I you&#039;re referring to bio engineered crops, This is a newer development. Not all Agricultural Engineering is based on bio engineering and certainly this area is much older and had it&#039;s success without genetically engineering crops. Norman  Borlaug for example won the noble prize in the 70&#039;s based on his research in improving crop production in third world countries. Saving hundreds of millions of life. No one was bio engineering then. 

Regarding the hunger crisis, we have more food than we can eat thanks to better crops. We certainly can argue the point on whether pesticides are over used, but you cannot argue their impact on increased production. There is hunger in the world, but that is not due to lack of food. Famines exist in areas of civil war where relief organization cannot deliver food effectively or in countries like North Korea where the government blocks access completely. 

Regarding the latest trends in Bio-Engineered crops. The jury is still out on these and their impact. I do think there are many sci fi scare tactics being deployed from the opposition. I also do not trust corporations, so I am still on the fence on the topic until I see more research. In any case the gene is already out,  you may already be eating a bio-engineered tomato without knowing it :)

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;I am quite sure I am not, luckily there are strickt laws and rules for genetically engeneered produce in Europe. Thank God! And much to the chagrin of the big American companies.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sabiwabi,</p>
<p>I you&#8217;re referring to bio engineered crops, This is a newer development. Not all Agricultural Engineering is based on bio engineering and certainly this area is much older and had it&#8217;s success without genetically engineering crops. Norman  Borlaug for example won the noble prize in the 70&#8242;s based on his research in improving crop production in third world countries. Saving hundreds of millions of life. No one was bio engineering then. </p>
<p>Regarding the hunger crisis, we have more food than we can eat thanks to better crops. We certainly can argue the point on whether pesticides are over used, but you cannot argue their impact on increased production. There is hunger in the world, but that is not due to lack of food. Famines exist in areas of civil war where relief organization cannot deliver food effectively or in countries like North Korea where the government blocks access completely. </p>
<p>Regarding the latest trends in Bio-Engineered crops. The jury is still out on these and their impact. I do think there are many sci fi scare tactics being deployed from the opposition. I also do not trust corporations, so I am still on the fence on the topic until I see more research. In any case the gene is already out,  you may already be eating a bio-engineered tomato without knowing it <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><em><strong>I am quite sure I am not, luckily there are strickt laws and rules for genetically engeneered produce in Europe. Thank God! And much to the chagrin of the big American companies.</strong></em></p>
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		<title>By: sabiwabi</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6330</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sabiwabi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MoQ

Agricultural engineering is some very scary shit and if you dig a little deeper it is not hard to see why.  Before I go on, I suggest everyone take a look and do a little research for themselves.  I am not even coming at this on a religious level (at least at this juncture, maybe I&#039;ll get back to that), but on a scientific level.  To allow corporations to tamper with the genetics of plants and spread those dominating strains of seeds all over the world (which eventually, over time will MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO GROW A CROP ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT HAVING BOUGHT A &quot;MAGIC BEAN&quot; FROM MONSANTO&quot;) is a dangerous thing and I am certainly not dancing in the isles over it.  Talk about the scary prospect of turning food into a weapon!  And on top of all that, we have yet to have any solid research on the SAFETY of these foods on the human body.  I shudder at a the thought of a future full of bio engineered crops.  Feeding a world of 5 billion IS possible.  But, nobody wants to look at the healthier, organic, and yes, a bit more labor intensive solution.  The fact is that current the problems with agriculture are SO deep that using the GMO solution as the answer is akin to putting a band-aid on a hemorrhage (except I would liken it more to a band-aid soaked that was soaked in poison). Because we have RAPED the land and the soil for far to many years and then on top of that decided to dump CHEMICAL fertilizers onto everything; plants today have become weaker, therefore making them MORE prone to destruction by pests and disease.  Change in agriculture can come about, the hunger crisis can be solved and hopefully it will happen without the final call coming from a maniac in a suit in a Dupont boardroom.  I prefer the more natural solutions and I think that with proper education, most other people would prefer it too.  There are good changes happening, albeit slowly, but they are happening.  I suggest you take a minute to look at Will Allen of Growing Power, for one.  He has ideas that can change the world (especially in urban areas) and in fact, he just won a MacArthur Foundation Genius Award.  If people only realized what they could grow in their OWN backyards and with their OWN compost made from their very OWN garbage....I don&#039;t think they would put their seal of approval on genetically engineered crops for a second.  

Of course, going back to the age old, cherished tradition of SHARING the blessings that you have been given and putting an end to selfishness and GREED would help as well.  Too bad Monsanto isn&#039;t able to engineer a seed that would cure that problem.

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;I couldn&#039;t agree more sabiwabi! Genetically engineered crops don&#039;t do half as well as advertised, have a lower yield as natural crops while using up more water, quite the opposite as advertised. The only object they do succeed in is engineering crops which cannot perpetuated, in other words they cannot be seeded, the seeds for next year&#039;s crop have to be brought from the manufaturer at high cost. And that is another reason for Big Business; these seeds can be patented, thereby making simularly indecent high profits for companies as pharmaceuticals.
If we want to feed the world we should stop eating massive amounts of meat! &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MoQ</p>
<p>Agricultural engineering is some very scary shit and if you dig a little deeper it is not hard to see why.  Before I go on, I suggest everyone take a look and do a little research for themselves.  I am not even coming at this on a religious level (at least at this juncture, maybe I&#8217;ll get back to that), but on a scientific level.  To allow corporations to tamper with the genetics of plants and spread those dominating strains of seeds all over the world (which eventually, over time will MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO GROW A CROP ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT HAVING BOUGHT A &#8220;MAGIC BEAN&#8221; FROM MONSANTO&#8221;) is a dangerous thing and I am certainly not dancing in the isles over it.  Talk about the scary prospect of turning food into a weapon!  And on top of all that, we have yet to have any solid research on the SAFETY of these foods on the human body.  I shudder at a the thought of a future full of bio engineered crops.  Feeding a world of 5 billion IS possible.  But, nobody wants to look at the healthier, organic, and yes, a bit more labor intensive solution.  The fact is that current the problems with agriculture are SO deep that using the GMO solution as the answer is akin to putting a band-aid on a hemorrhage (except I would liken it more to a band-aid soaked that was soaked in poison). Because we have RAPED the land and the soil for far to many years and then on top of that decided to dump CHEMICAL fertilizers onto everything; plants today have become weaker, therefore making them MORE prone to destruction by pests and disease.  Change in agriculture can come about, the hunger crisis can be solved and hopefully it will happen without the final call coming from a maniac in a suit in a Dupont boardroom.  I prefer the more natural solutions and I think that with proper education, most other people would prefer it too.  There are good changes happening, albeit slowly, but they are happening.  I suggest you take a minute to look at Will Allen of Growing Power, for one.  He has ideas that can change the world (especially in urban areas) and in fact, he just won a MacArthur Foundation Genius Award.  If people only realized what they could grow in their OWN backyards and with their OWN compost made from their very OWN garbage&#8230;.I don&#8217;t think they would put their seal of approval on genetically engineered crops for a second.  </p>
<p>Of course, going back to the age old, cherished tradition of SHARING the blessings that you have been given and putting an end to selfishness and GREED would help as well.  Too bad Monsanto isn&#8217;t able to engineer a seed that would cure that problem.</p>
<p><em><strong>I couldn&#8217;t agree more sabiwabi! Genetically engineered crops don&#8217;t do half as well as advertised, have a lower yield as natural crops while using up more water, quite the opposite as advertised. The only object they do succeed in is engineering crops which cannot perpetuated, in other words they cannot be seeded, the seeds for next year&#8217;s crop have to be brought from the manufaturer at high cost. And that is another reason for Big Business; these seeds can be patented, thereby making simularly indecent high profits for companies as pharmaceuticals.<br />
If we want to feed the world we should stop eating massive amounts of meat! </strong></em></p>
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		<title>By: MoQ</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6329</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoQ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 05:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@coolred38,

Let me first correct the monkey comment. Again humans did not spring out from monkey&#039;s. I do encourage you to research this more since you have started already.

Regarding how does this impact your daily life here and now. Evolution theory is a framework that supported the development of many sciences impacting your life in many ways. Sciences like genetics, agricultural engineering, medicine, etc. would not be advanced or in some cases would not have existed without this breakthrough for man kind. These sciences impact you in the foods you eat, the medicines you take to live longer and healthier life, the clothes you wear, etc. 

Just one single fact about impacts of these sciences. The agricultural lands of the world, even if used at its best efficiency, would not be able to support more then a 5 Billion population without modern crops that have high yields and are resistant to diseases. Those high yield crops were developed through breeding techniques which would not have been possible without the understanding of how species can evolve.  How many lives would have been lost in a world with a population approaching 7 Billion without these products.

It is a shame that one of the most important human discoveries receive so much resistance.
&lt;em&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;Nice comment MoQ, although I have serious doubts about genetically engeneered vegetables.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@coolred38,</p>
<p>Let me first correct the monkey comment. Again humans did not spring out from monkey&#8217;s. I do encourage you to research this more since you have started already.</p>
<p>Regarding how does this impact your daily life here and now. Evolution theory is a framework that supported the development of many sciences impacting your life in many ways. Sciences like genetics, agricultural engineering, medicine, etc. would not be advanced or in some cases would not have existed without this breakthrough for man kind. These sciences impact you in the foods you eat, the medicines you take to live longer and healthier life, the clothes you wear, etc. </p>
<p>Just one single fact about impacts of these sciences. The agricultural lands of the world, even if used at its best efficiency, would not be able to support more then a 5 Billion population without modern crops that have high yields and are resistant to diseases. Those high yield crops were developed through breeding techniques which would not have been possible without the understanding of how species can evolve.  How many lives would have been lost in a world with a population approaching 7 Billion without these products.</p>
<p>It is a shame that one of the most important human discoveries receive so much resistance.<br />
<em><br />
<strong>Nice comment MoQ, although I have serious doubts about genetically engeneered vegetables.</strong></em></p>
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		<title>By: coolred38</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6327</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[coolred38]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would  gather from your reply to me that you think Im not up to speed on the whole Darwin breakdown of the evolution of man? Well...Ive read him...read others...Im up to speed...my point was...we are here...and then? What does it matter how or why...it changes nothing at all about the fact that WE ARE. 

If we discover as fact that we sprang from monkies...shall we all celebrate with a bunch of bananas and practice our tree climbing skills just to keep in touch with our ancient tradions?

If we can in some way prove that we poofed into existence because God said &quot;Be&quot; and by God we were...THEN? 

My POINT of my comment was...and then what? How does it change anything at all about the human race right here and right now?

Its your blog for sure...but your ability and desire to constantly talk down to people, here and on other blogs, gets tiring.

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;You don&#039;t present yourself as somebody who is knowledgable about the science of evolution. You keep making the same comments about how we are descended from apes, which is not what evolution is about. So if you do know what evolution is about you&#039;re being really silly acting as if you don&#039;t and still insist you should betaken serious.

I love eating bananas and searching for flees btw.

As there is nothing to prove that a God created the universe, the question is moot. If, as a speculation, it would get proven scientifically, it would not suddenly be in confict with scientific evolutionary proof. So teaching a faulty, unlogic, unscientific, bronze age creation myth again has no place in a classroom

I am sorry if you can&#039;t deal with me being fairly blunt and outspoken. If you are tired of that I suggest you either don&#039;t comment or try to make more intelligent comments&lt;/em&gt;
&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would  gather from your reply to me that you think Im not up to speed on the whole Darwin breakdown of the evolution of man? Well&#8230;Ive read him&#8230;read others&#8230;Im up to speed&#8230;my point was&#8230;we are here&#8230;and then? What does it matter how or why&#8230;it changes nothing at all about the fact that WE ARE. </p>
<p>If we discover as fact that we sprang from monkies&#8230;shall we all celebrate with a bunch of bananas and practice our tree climbing skills just to keep in touch with our ancient tradions?</p>
<p>If we can in some way prove that we poofed into existence because God said &#8220;Be&#8221; and by God we were&#8230;THEN? </p>
<p>My POINT of my comment was&#8230;and then what? How does it change anything at all about the human race right here and right now?</p>
<p>Its your blog for sure&#8230;but your ability and desire to constantly talk down to people, here and on other blogs, gets tiring.</p>
<p><strong><em>You don&#8217;t present yourself as somebody who is knowledgable about the science of evolution. You keep making the same comments about how we are descended from apes, which is not what evolution is about. So if you do know what evolution is about you&#8217;re being really silly acting as if you don&#8217;t and still insist you should betaken serious.</p>
<p>I love eating bananas and searching for flees btw.</p>
<p>As there is nothing to prove that a God created the universe, the question is moot. If, as a speculation, it would get proven scientifically, it would not suddenly be in confict with scientific evolutionary proof. So teaching a faulty, unlogic, unscientific, bronze age creation myth again has no place in a classroom</p>
<p>I am sorry if you can&#8217;t deal with me being fairly blunt and outspoken. If you are tired of that I suggest you either don&#8217;t comment or try to make more intelligent comments</em><br />
</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Aafke</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hahahahaaaa.

Oh, I should have been more discreet in placing pictures of men with hairy legs! I am well aware of your proclivities!  :twisted:]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hahahahaaaa.</p>
<p>Oh, I should have been more discreet in placing pictures of men with hairy legs! I am well aware of your proclivities!  <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif' alt=':twisted:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Achelois</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/religion-blasphemy-and-evolution-1/#comment-6316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Achelois]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=4268#comment-6316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So was I! Honestly. But mashallah you do have good debates on in comments ;) Haha!

And that hairy ancient man in the second photo is such a turn-on - NOT! :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So was I! Honestly. But mashallah you do have good debates on in comments <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Haha!</p>
<p>And that hairy ancient man in the second photo is such a turn-on &#8211; NOT! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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