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	<title>Comments on: Women, dress, undress and religions</title>
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		<title>By: Hasan Ismail</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-8624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hasan Ismail]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-8624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As for the quraan.
It talked about the earth to be egg‏ ‏shaped but muslims never noticed that
it talked about many scientific facts that science just proved years ago but muslims never noticed them until lately
and there are more facts in the quoraan that are not discovered yet
jesus came to spread peace and love between all humans but his enemies did not allow him
the same way prophet mohammad came with the quoraan and tried to explain it but -as i and some people believe-he was killed by people that only wanted to be lords and kings and wanted to rule, they were never real muslims, but they knew that there will be a strong islamic country and they wanted to rule it, after the prophet they fought imam ali who had all the knowledge people need and at last they killed him
so the people dont have the knowledge he had, yet we got some
so the people cannot refer to the quoraan only to monitor there life, it is as law it needs mature and genuis lawyers to explain it ‎
indeed prophet mohammad said:i am leaving with you two races, the book of allah and my strain, my family, whenever you stick to them you will never be lost after me. He did not say i am only leaving with you the book of allah]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the quraan.<br />
It talked about the earth to be egg‏ ‏shaped but muslims never noticed that<br />
it talked about many scientific facts that science just proved years ago but muslims never noticed them until lately<br />
and there are more facts in the quoraan that are not discovered yet<br />
jesus came to spread peace and love between all humans but his enemies did not allow him<br />
the same way prophet mohammad came with the quoraan and tried to explain it but -as i and some people believe-he was killed by people that only wanted to be lords and kings and wanted to rule, they were never real muslims, but they knew that there will be a strong islamic country and they wanted to rule it, after the prophet they fought imam ali who had all the knowledge people need and at last they killed him<br />
so the people dont have the knowledge he had, yet we got some<br />
so the people cannot refer to the quoraan only to monitor there life, it is as law it needs mature and genuis lawyers to explain it ‎<br />
indeed prophet mohammad said:i am leaving with you two races, the book of allah and my strain, my family, whenever you stick to them you will never be lost after me. He did not say i am only leaving with you the book of allah</p>
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		<title>By: Hasan Ismail</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-8622</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hasan Ismail]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-8622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well i disagree with what saudi arabia says , women hide one eye! Women are not meant to hide their face but to be modest as well as men, scholars are not brave enough to say that men must abide by the rules of the 80s:prudent muslim men used to wear shirts with long sleeves that even could hide the fingers, and very tight in a way it could squeeze the neck. Women are not ordered to be home sick they are ordered to go out side like Fatima(daughter of prophet mohammad) and zeinab(her daughter) who stood between all men and defended the good, women are not ordered to look at the ground they can look at men and love as well as loved, it is religous men that look at the ground .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well i disagree with what saudi arabia says , women hide one eye! Women are not meant to hide their face but to be modest as well as men, scholars are not brave enough to say that men must abide by the rules of the 80s:prudent muslim men used to wear shirts with long sleeves that even could hide the fingers, and very tight in a way it could squeeze the neck. Women are not ordered to be home sick they are ordered to go out side like Fatima(daughter of prophet mohammad) and zeinab(her daughter) who stood between all men and defended the good, women are not ordered to look at the ground they can look at men and love as well as loved, it is religous men that look at the ground .</p>
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		<title>By: Aafke-Art</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-8619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke-Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-8619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know Arabic speakers and they tell me there is nothing in the Quran which vcannot be perfectly well translated into other languages. After all, if that were not so the Quran would not be for all people and all times. And where some English translations may be deviating it is to soften some nasty bits.
And if even Arabic speaking scholars do not know what the Quran is saying then we can forget about the Quran being perfectly understandable and adapt the sura&#039;s to our modern, &lt;em&gt;more advanced&lt;/em&gt; moral insight.
Which is excellent of course.

If you think a woman&#039;s body is like a treasure you should make sure it remains healthy, for which exposure to sun, light, fresh air, and freedom of movement and trainig/sports, are &lt;strong&gt;essential&lt;/strong&gt;.

If &#039;&#039;guys&#039;&#039; cannot keep their eyes to themselves, and treat women, even if she were truly naked, with respect and decency, then the problem lies wholly with the &#039;&#039;guys&#039;&#039;.
And the solution if you think this is a problem, should be geared towards the men. There are many possibilities: you can order men to stay in the home, in a room without windows, like they now want women to spend their time, or you can force men to wear blinders, and/or cover one eye, as a Saudi scholar&#039;s fatwa told women to do. And force men to walk with their heads bowed, and only look at the ground, like they want women to do.
As the problem is with the men, I do not think the women should have to do anything to resolve it. I think the men should look at themselves and realize how flawed they are and work on themselves to become modern advanced human beings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know Arabic speakers and they tell me there is nothing in the Quran which vcannot be perfectly well translated into other languages. After all, if that were not so the Quran would not be for all people and all times. And where some English translations may be deviating it is to soften some nasty bits.<br />
And if even Arabic speaking scholars do not know what the Quran is saying then we can forget about the Quran being perfectly understandable and adapt the sura&#8217;s to our modern, <em>more advanced</em> moral insight.<br />
Which is excellent of course.</p>
<p>If you think a woman&#8217;s body is like a treasure you should make sure it remains healthy, for which exposure to sun, light, fresh air, and freedom of movement and trainig/sports, are <strong>essential</strong>.</p>
<p>If &#8221;guys&#8221; cannot keep their eyes to themselves, and treat women, even if she were truly naked, with respect and decency, then the problem lies wholly with the &#8221;guys&#8221;.<br />
And the solution if you think this is a problem, should be geared towards the men. There are many possibilities: you can order men to stay in the home, in a room without windows, like they now want women to spend their time, or you can force men to wear blinders, and/or cover one eye, as a Saudi scholar&#8217;s fatwa told women to do. And force men to walk with their heads bowed, and only look at the ground, like they want women to do.<br />
As the problem is with the men, I do not think the women should have to do anything to resolve it. I think the men should look at themselves and realize how flawed they are and work on themselves to become modern advanced human beings.</p>
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		<title>By: Aafke-Art</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-8618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke-Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-8618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You did not read the article correctly, and you do not look around you and see the evidence of what&#039;s happening: covering the female body fuels men&#039;s lust.
Again, there&#039;s nothing less arousing than actually having people run around naked. Again: this is not a pretty sight.
Compare the &#039;&#039;Wicked West&#039;&#039; when women can lay on a beach without being molested, while in a supressive country like Saudi Arabia, where women are forced to cover head to toe, women cannot walk anywhere without being harassed by men in the most heinous manner. 
So if there is one or more gods who are testing you I think you are going the wrong way in covering women up in a black bee-keepers costume. You are failing the test.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You did not read the article correctly, and you do not look around you and see the evidence of what&#8217;s happening: covering the female body fuels men&#8217;s lust.<br />
Again, there&#8217;s nothing less arousing than actually having people run around naked. Again: this is not a pretty sight.<br />
Compare the &#8221;Wicked West&#8221; when women can lay on a beach without being molested, while in a supressive country like Saudi Arabia, where women are forced to cover head to toe, women cannot walk anywhere without being harassed by men in the most heinous manner.<br />
So if there is one or more gods who are testing you I think you are going the wrong way in covering women up in a black bee-keepers costume. You are failing the test.</p>
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		<title>By: Amir</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-8615</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-8615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If God was so worried about us showing no skin, He/She would have let us keep our fur.&quot;

God is not worried at all, He&#039;s just testing you and me. And that is the nature of the few days you spend on this earth, testing. Like all His orders (&quot;Don&#039;t kill&quot;, &quot;Behave with manners&quot;, etc.), God tests us by sending us His commands, and obviously gives us the ability to disobey. Furthermore, He provides us with incentives beautifying His disobeydiance, usually contradictory to the neutral thinking. For example, you may love to see women naked, but you may not feel happy knowing that your mother, sister, wife and daughter are naked on the street and all males are watching them with lust.
Certainly you need to know what His commands are, and what are false commands. There should be a cristal clear proof for those who seek guidance.

Amir.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If God was so worried about us showing no skin, He/She would have let us keep our fur.&#8221;</p>
<p>God is not worried at all, He&#8217;s just testing you and me. And that is the nature of the few days you spend on this earth, testing. Like all His orders (&#8220;Don&#8217;t kill&#8221;, &#8220;Behave with manners&#8221;, etc.), God tests us by sending us His commands, and obviously gives us the ability to disobey. Furthermore, He provides us with incentives beautifying His disobeydiance, usually contradictory to the neutral thinking. For example, you may love to see women naked, but you may not feel happy knowing that your mother, sister, wife and daughter are naked on the street and all males are watching them with lust.<br />
Certainly you need to know what His commands are, and what are false commands. There should be a cristal clear proof for those who seek guidance.</p>
<p>Amir.</p>
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		<title>By: 94hasan</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-8053</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[94hasan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 04:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-8053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a muslim and I think u really have a misunderstanding toward muslims
u take only a group of ppl (those of saudi arabia) where as muslims are classified into about 50 to 100 group
also you try to explain the holly Quraan after it is translated into english where even scholars and relegous men and arabic proffesionalists cant explain it completely write when the Quraan is in arabic so how could u explain the english version (and translation is kinds : 1 kind is word by word and the other is by meaning and other kinds ,so if u translate the Quraan by word by word method then u cant explain it from the translation because it dont hold the meaning and u cant translate it by thd second method because the meaning is not fully and completely known)
finally i think woman&#039;s body is like a treasure if some wants to get it he must pass certain traps and if it is distributed on many ppl it loses it&#039;s value
and so is a girl she must examin every guy that try to get near to her inorder to know if he deserves her beauty and she should not show her beauty in public but to only one person inorder to maintain the repectable fact that she is tooooooooooooo precious (this one is my openion not islamic)
also men must cover their yes not like women but they must and yes this may show that women are more precous than men in this domain]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a muslim and I think u really have a misunderstanding toward muslims<br />
u take only a group of ppl (those of saudi arabia) where as muslims are classified into about 50 to 100 group<br />
also you try to explain the holly Quraan after it is translated into english where even scholars and relegous men and arabic proffesionalists cant explain it completely write when the Quraan is in arabic so how could u explain the english version (and translation is kinds : 1 kind is word by word and the other is by meaning and other kinds ,so if u translate the Quraan by word by word method then u cant explain it from the translation because it dont hold the meaning and u cant translate it by thd second method because the meaning is not fully and completely known)<br />
finally i think woman&#8217;s body is like a treasure if some wants to get it he must pass certain traps and if it is distributed on many ppl it loses it&#8217;s value<br />
and so is a girl she must examin every guy that try to get near to her inorder to know if he deserves her beauty and she should not show her beauty in public but to only one person inorder to maintain the repectable fact that she is tooooooooooooo precious (this one is my openion not islamic)<br />
also men must cover their yes not like women but they must and yes this may show that women are more precous than men in this domain</p>
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		<title>By: bigstick</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-7979</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigstick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 04:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-7979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Got that late 70s early 80s look going.  The wookie look. You really are a sci- fi fan.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got that late 70s early 80s look going.  The wookie look. You really are a sci- fi fan.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Aafke-Art</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-7403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke-Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 19:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-7403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Woehahahahahahahahahaaa!
Thank you for commenting!
Please go to the &#039;&#039;about&#039;&#039; page and read the disclaimer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woehahahahahahahahahaaa!<br />
Thank you for commenting!<br />
Please go to the &#8221;about&#8221; page and read the disclaimer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ab</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-7402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 19:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-7402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think there&#039;s a lot of exaggeration in this article. Life of humans started with Adam Alaihissalam, and I believe there is where we should look at first when talking about human behavior,etc. Learning about him and sin that took him and Hawwa out of Paradise would help to understand that people sin,face the consequences, and may also learn from their mistakes. One reason why we follow the Quran &amp; Sunnah, is so that we may learn to help our own selves before/after sinning so that we may know how to deal with sinning. We don&#039;t the actual outcome or certain actions that take place and we need guidance. To simply throw out something because it seems strange reflects our own ignorance and intellect. Looking at the stories you&#039;ve posted along the pictures, I think anybody could be offended with clothing and want to be nude. However, we weren&#039;t there to understand and this article doesn&#039;t help us understand since it&#039;s so biased.Those people in those pictures,we can&#039;t read their minds, but they seem content as they are. Even the Europeans not very long ago wore huge clothing, but they were happy. Later, with technology, clothing and other innovations became easier to produce and easier to alter. So, that&#039;s how you see all these slimmer, almost painted on types of clothing. If the objective of these innovators of fashion was to be modest, then it makes no sense about all these tight clothes being around now. But that wasn&#039;t the intention behind them, it was just ole desires. That&#039;s how sins are so easy to be committed,because of human desires. But desires don&#039;t make right what wrong and vice versa. The stories you&#039;ve mentioned are just about certain people, not everyone did felt &amp; did the same as those sodomizers,or whomever. 

Women in Islam are like gems. Even though you have on an Abaya doesn&#039;t mean you can&#039;t see any shape (unless it was made out of cardboard).  And also, not every woman dresses as Afghanistanis do,they are very small amount of people. Rape still occurs in countries that have a majority of Muslims, so that tells you that not everyone follows the laws in the Quran. 

Women aren&#039;t meant to be isolated in Islam, so regardless of how they dress, they are allowed to work,shop, interact and be around other human beings. When you are around others, Muslim women don&#039;t act like robots, they have feelings too, and as humans they may sin. All you see in these pictures are still images in time. You&#039;re not seeing or hearing what these people are like, so you can&#039;t say that just because a woman has all this clothing on that she isn&#039;t fully capable of being happy,without having to practically paint &quot;clothing&quot; onto her body. Muslim women of today and in the past alike who understand why they cover and understand that there&#039;s a wisdom behind it. It is easy to sin and hard to be pious. 
For you to say &quot;If God was so worried about us showing no skin,
He/She would have let us keep our fur.&quot; is ridiculous.There&#039;s no real proof of evolution. Just as you talk down about scholars, why couldn&#039;t you do the same with scientists? They don&#039;t have proof for everything they say, and usually make assumptions like you and I,and are not aware of future events.They are just examining what they have found while Allah ta&#039;ala informs us of what we didn&#039;t know, but surely He knows everything.Scientists make guesses and often make new discoveries that then may change their original hypothesis. They don&#039;t have an honest guideline as the true scholars of Islam do (i.e.Quran &amp; Sunnah). To really understand Islam, you&#039;d have to read the Quran and Sunnah itself, then can you see truth from falsehood and be able to know who the true scholars are. They are not, as you may assume,like monks hidden and few. The Prophets were scholars along with their companions. They understand and were taught Islam properly. The scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets, and from them would you gain true knowledge of Islam.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a lot of exaggeration in this article. Life of humans started with Adam Alaihissalam, and I believe there is where we should look at first when talking about human behavior,etc. Learning about him and sin that took him and Hawwa out of Paradise would help to understand that people sin,face the consequences, and may also learn from their mistakes. One reason why we follow the Quran &amp; Sunnah, is so that we may learn to help our own selves before/after sinning so that we may know how to deal with sinning. We don&#8217;t the actual outcome or certain actions that take place and we need guidance. To simply throw out something because it seems strange reflects our own ignorance and intellect. Looking at the stories you&#8217;ve posted along the pictures, I think anybody could be offended with clothing and want to be nude. However, we weren&#8217;t there to understand and this article doesn&#8217;t help us understand since it&#8217;s so biased.Those people in those pictures,we can&#8217;t read their minds, but they seem content as they are. Even the Europeans not very long ago wore huge clothing, but they were happy. Later, with technology, clothing and other innovations became easier to produce and easier to alter. So, that&#8217;s how you see all these slimmer, almost painted on types of clothing. If the objective of these innovators of fashion was to be modest, then it makes no sense about all these tight clothes being around now. But that wasn&#8217;t the intention behind them, it was just ole desires. That&#8217;s how sins are so easy to be committed,because of human desires. But desires don&#8217;t make right what wrong and vice versa. The stories you&#8217;ve mentioned are just about certain people, not everyone did felt &amp; did the same as those sodomizers,or whomever. </p>
<p>Women in Islam are like gems. Even though you have on an Abaya doesn&#8217;t mean you can&#8217;t see any shape (unless it was made out of cardboard).  And also, not every woman dresses as Afghanistanis do,they are very small amount of people. Rape still occurs in countries that have a majority of Muslims, so that tells you that not everyone follows the laws in the Quran. </p>
<p>Women aren&#8217;t meant to be isolated in Islam, so regardless of how they dress, they are allowed to work,shop, interact and be around other human beings. When you are around others, Muslim women don&#8217;t act like robots, they have feelings too, and as humans they may sin. All you see in these pictures are still images in time. You&#8217;re not seeing or hearing what these people are like, so you can&#8217;t say that just because a woman has all this clothing on that she isn&#8217;t fully capable of being happy,without having to practically paint &#8220;clothing&#8221; onto her body. Muslim women of today and in the past alike who understand why they cover and understand that there&#8217;s a wisdom behind it. It is easy to sin and hard to be pious.<br />
For you to say &#8220;If God was so worried about us showing no skin,<br />
He/She would have let us keep our fur.&#8221; is ridiculous.There&#8217;s no real proof of evolution. Just as you talk down about scholars, why couldn&#8217;t you do the same with scientists? They don&#8217;t have proof for everything they say, and usually make assumptions like you and I,and are not aware of future events.They are just examining what they have found while Allah ta&#8217;ala informs us of what we didn&#8217;t know, but surely He knows everything.Scientists make guesses and often make new discoveries that then may change their original hypothesis. They don&#8217;t have an honest guideline as the true scholars of Islam do (i.e.Quran &amp; Sunnah). To really understand Islam, you&#8217;d have to read the Quran and Sunnah itself, then can you see truth from falsehood and be able to know who the true scholars are. They are not, as you may assume,like monks hidden and few. The Prophets were scholars along with their companions. They understand and were taught Islam properly. The scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets, and from them would you gain true knowledge of Islam.</p>
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		<title>By: Aafke-Art</title>
		<link>http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/women-dress-and-undress-and-religions/#comment-6973</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aafke-Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/?p=2546#comment-6973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is not a &#039;&#039;scientific&#039;&#039; blog. I do not write &#039;&#039;scientific&#039;&#039; monographs. I write whatever pops up in my mind. Naturally I have been reading a lot, but I don&#039;t want to spend an extra week on each article digging up what I read where.
It&#039;s just a blog.
Go to a library or bookshop and you&#039;ll find lots of books.
Probably the same I read.

Actually, this article is mostly based on my deductions from visual material some of which I have shared here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not a &#8221;scientific&#8221; blog. I do not write &#8221;scientific&#8221; monographs. I write whatever pops up in my mind. Naturally I have been reading a lot, but I don&#8217;t want to spend an extra week on each article digging up what I read where.<br />
It&#8217;s just a blog.<br />
Go to a library or bookshop and you&#8217;ll find lots of books.<br />
Probably the same I read.</p>
<p>Actually, this article is mostly based on my deductions from visual material some of which I have shared here.</p>
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